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mlburgoon
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Post subject: New MTX Gear Possibilities.
 Posted: Jul 15, 2008 - 03:08 PM
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Posting Freak
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 585
Location: Olathe, KS
Status: Offline
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I am looking at trying something pretty crazy. I have taken ALL of the gear ratios and ALL of the Final Drive ratios and put them all in a BIG spread sheet. I am thinking about trying to design (with my machinist friend) a NEW input shaft for the tranny. This new shaft would NOT have the gears already made solid onto the shaft. Instead, all of the gears would be able to be interchanged on the new splined shaft. Kinda like in a quick change rear end, but you would have to take apart your tranny and put it back together.
So you would basically take your current tranny (or a different one) and find the inal drive ratio of it at the top. Then you would be able to PICK WHAT GEARS YOU WANTED to come out to the the Total Gear Ratio for EACH GEAR (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th if you got it) in your custom Tranny. You would swap out BOTH gears (there are 2 gears in the tranny for each shifted gear) to get you to where you need to be.
What do you all think about that??? I want lots of thoughts and discussion on this. I want to have people coming up with all kinds of issues so that if I do this, it would be pretty solid on the first shot. I don't want to be blowing trannies through lots of experiments.
chart:
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Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level, then beat you up with experience.
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PerformanceWithEconomy
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 - 11:26 PM
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 1107
Location: South Suburbs of Chicago
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I've been tinkering with stuff like this too. I sent a similar but far less involved spreadsheet over to Aaron about a month or two ago, comparing gearsets and final drives. Doing this type of research takes up a sizable amount of time and effort, so kudo's to you posting your findings for all to see.
With all of that in mind, I am in the process of buying another trans strictly for the internal gearing. Having said that, even that gearing isn't exactly what i would like to use, but it is better than what i have in my stock 94 MTX III. I would LOVE to be able to pick and choose every aspect of the gearing within the trans, but then again, i'm not made of money either 
My question to you Mike is, where did you come up with all of the different ratios that you have listed? I'm not aware of that many different ratios in either the transmissions or ring gears being available for this particular transaxle. On top of that, are you talking about doing this for the MTX III as found on the 2.3L cars or the MTX IV as found on the V6 cars? Sean
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92 White / Red 2.3 MTX 130K miles, 93 Cayman Green / Grey 2.3 MTX 140K miles, 94 White / Grey 2.3 MTX 196K miles, 94 Red / Grey 2.3 ATX 70K miles, SouthSide Chicago
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mlburgoon
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 - 03:06 PM
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Posting Freak
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 585
Location: Olathe, KS
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Those are all of the trannies that SHOULD bolt to our cars and work. this includes early mtx-I and MTX-II trannies from the early escorts. It also includes the gears from an MTX-IV which should work also (internally).
TONS of time researching all the different trannies the SHOULD bolt to these cars. I will try to post pictures of my spreadsheet. |
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Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level, then beat you up with experience.
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mlburgoon
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 - 03:15 PM
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Posting Freak
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 585
Location: Olathe, KS
Status: Offline
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as promised, list of vehicles, trans, and gear ratios. Sorry for the width, but you have to be able to read them.
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Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level, then beat you up with experience.
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PerformanceWithEconomy
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 - 01:39 AM
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 1107
Location: South Suburbs of Chicago
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Mike, as the factory parts are right now, is it possible to set up one set of trans gears to run with a ring gear from a different trans or are the trans and ring gears somehow "mated"? Sean
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_________________
92 White / Red 2.3 MTX 130K miles, 93 Cayman Green / Grey 2.3 MTX 140K miles, 94 White / Grey 2.3 MTX 196K miles, 94 Red / Grey 2.3 ATX 70K miles, SouthSide Chicago
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mlburgoon
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 - 02:08 AM
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Posting Freak
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 585
Location: Olathe, KS
Status: Offline
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| I am not sure. I think you can swap the final drive gears out, but not totally sure. I will look at my tranny I have apart in the garage a little later and see what I can determine. |
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Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level, then beat you up with experience.
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PerformanceWithEconomy
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 - 07:04 AM
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Joined: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 1107
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Thanks, i would appreciate that. Sean
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_________________
92 White / Red 2.3 MTX 130K miles, 93 Cayman Green / Grey 2.3 MTX 140K miles, 94 White / Grey 2.3 MTX 196K miles, 94 Red / Grey 2.3 ATX 70K miles, SouthSide Chicago
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88ESCORTGT
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 - 08:52 AM
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Blabbermouth
Joined: Jun 27, 2004
Posts: 1759
Location: ONTARIO
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I can tell you thing since i have moded many Tempo escort trannys that ,
1 some have the ring gear riveted to the basket lots of work to take the big steel rivets off need to replace with nice bolts after
2 some of the gear ran buy the ring gear is made on the shaf and that must be replace has a unit.
3 some have bolted down ring gears that are ezzy to swap .
4 i have welted diff in about 4 tempo trannys 5 speed and 3 automatic, automatics are the ezzyest you can just take oil pan off and there are the ring gear and spider gears.
5 take lots of pics for us if oyu do work on it. |
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mlburgoon
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 - 05:10 PM
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Posting Freak
Joined: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 585
Location: Olathe, KS
Status: Offline
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Well, for doing JUST a ring gear swap, it LOOKS like you would need to replace the RING GEAR and the PINION SHAFT. I don't have all the gears out of my tranny, just the cover removed. In the tranny, there are 3 shafts. The input shaft comes in from its connection to the motor\flywheel\clutch. It is conected (via gears) to the "gears" shaft (not correct term, but it is descriptive). On the bottom of the GEARS shaft is the "Pinion Gear" (to relate it to a rear end). So i guess the "gear shaft" and the Pinion shaft" would be the same from my perspective.
gets confusing, though. I need to take my tranny apart further to see how it all actually works. |
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Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level, then beat you up with experience.
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88ESCORTGT
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 - 07:08 PM
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Blabbermouth
Joined: Jun 27, 2004
Posts: 1759
Location: ONTARIO
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| its not very hard , I have done it many time its the same has a truck tranny just that the diff is in it . but the rest is the same. |
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PerformanceWithEconomy
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 01, 2008 - 12:04 PM
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After doing some number crunching, i'm going to find an MTX III out of an early (84 - 85) Diesel Escort. Here's why:
1) 3.93 first gear ratio in the diesel vs 3.6 in the Tempo. The lower first gear ratio in the diesel should offer greater "launch" capacity coming out of the hole when "gettin' it". On a day to day basis, it should be easier on the motor. Due to the increased gearing, the motor won't be loaded quite as much when trying to get all of the dead weight of the car moving from a stop.
2) Greater overdrive ratio in fifth gear i.e. you've got a .73 with the diesel compared to the .77 of the Tempo. Allows one to run a higher numeric ring gear without the associated increase in rpm's at highway speeds.
3) Increase in acceleration in all gears, as the final drive ratio is 3.52 rather than 3.33 as found stock in my 94 Tempo 5 speed.
4) Due to the combined changes in overdrive ratio and ring gear changes, the final drive ratio still works out to be 2.56:1. This is the same as my stock 94 Tempo in 5th gear.
In effect, i pick up increased gearing and the associated torque multiplication throughout all of the gears. This combo can do all of that while still maintaining the same rpm's as my factory installed trans on the highway. This equates to greater potential for performance with economy
Before someone jumps in here to tell me that the diesel trans will not bolt to my Tempo motor, i already know that. My intentions are to swap the internals out of the diesel into my Tempo trans. This solves the problem of the bellhouse mating to the motor while giving me all of the performance benefits mentioned above.
Anybody see any potential problems / benefits to doing something like this that i may have overlooked? Sean
< |
_________________
92 White / Red 2.3 MTX 130K miles, 93 Cayman Green / Grey 2.3 MTX 140K miles, 94 White / Grey 2.3 MTX 196K miles, 94 Red / Grey 2.3 ATX 70K miles, SouthSide Chicago
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88ESCORTGT
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 01, 2008 - 01:36 PM
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Blabbermouth
Joined: Jun 27, 2004
Posts: 1759
Location: ONTARIO
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The Tempo Diesel tranny is a mazda tranny and will not fit on the Tempo 2.3L .
I wanted to d othis is 1993 But I discovered that the tranny did not fit at all and
that the Diesel tranny was made by Mazda and so is the Diesel motor . the final gear
in the diesel tranny would have made a gas engine super good on gas at highway speeds.
since I have tryed the swap I can tel lyou with 100% certenty that it will not work.
but your other tranny with 3.52 gears is a rare find . usaly its 3.33 or 3.73 . |
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PerformanceWithEconomy
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 01, 2008 - 04:54 PM
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 1107
Location: South Suburbs of Chicago
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From the little research that i've done, the diesel trans is an MTX III trans made by Ford. Having said that, the bellhousing IS different due to having to mate to the non-Ford motor. This is why i said that i intended to swap the guts from the diesel trans into my Tempo trans. This gives me the gearing benefits and solves the bellhousing problem.
If this is incorrect or anybody knows differently, PLEASE post the info that you have. Sean
< |
_________________
92 White / Red 2.3 MTX 130K miles, 93 Cayman Green / Grey 2.3 MTX 140K miles, 94 White / Grey 2.3 MTX 196K miles, 94 Red / Grey 2.3 ATX 70K miles, SouthSide Chicago
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88ESCORTGT
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 01, 2008 - 09:04 PM
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Blabbermouth
Joined: Jun 27, 2004
Posts: 1759
Location: ONTARIO
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| well you are making me think ! I tell you in was in 1993 that I tryed it its a long time ago but I was sure the tranny was made buy Mazda and I'm still 100% sure the tranny bellhousing does not fit , if the tranny is made by ford then the gears would fit keep us posted on this thank you . |
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AWD:Chris
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 18, 2008 - 01:16 AM
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Member
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
Posts: 131
Location: Columbus Wisconsin
Status: Offline
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| The MTX-III for the diesels I believe is assembled by Mazda but its still a Ford MTX-III. The bellhousing is different, but the guts should be the same. My only question would be is the imput shafts different? |
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1985 Ford Tempo Diesel
317,000 mi car 117,000 engine
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Best MPG 49.7 on 23 Aug 2008
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